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Articles by Shay Sonya
Styles make fights. You hear that all the time.
Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by quintonjacksonfan, . What are some boxing matches where the better fighter lost because he could not cope with his opponents style? I suppose Iran Barkley simply had Tommy Hearn’s number. Of course I realize that Tommy wasn’t prime for either of their fights but the further back you go in his career he wasn’t fighting in Barkley’s weight class either. Fergy, Andre2000 and Hi-Tech like this.
Would Ali’s Rope A Dope Work On Sonny Liston?
Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Charles White, . I don't think so. Liston was too skillful and smart for that. I don't think Ali would try it on for those same reasons. Andre2000 said: ↑ I don't think so. Liston was too skillful and smart for that. I don't think Ali would try it on for those same reasons. Click to expand... I agree. Liston would have a field day with it imo Hello, Charles White. Yes.
Duane Bobick vs Jack Dempsey
Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by InMemoryofJakeLamotta, . Bobick vs Jack Dempsey Dempsey wins Dempsey is closer to Bobick in height than Marciano is, still lighter, and far more explosive at the start. He wrecked Jess Willard (6'6½", 245 lbs) in the first round. His style—low entries, sudden bursts, hooks from either hand—is built to get inside a tall man’s jab. Bobick’s best weapon is the long jab and the straight right behind it.
Sam Langford takes Floyd Patterson's Title Run
Sam Langford vs. Floyd Patterson's Lineal Title Run: Take Sam at whatever point in his career you think he was best able to start this run then age him as Patterson aged from there. 1. Archie Moore 2. Tommy Jackson 3. Pete Rademacher 4. Roy Harris 5. Brian London 6. Ingemar Johansson (If you have Johansson winning, then rematch. -Otherwise on to McNeely-. Same with Liston.) 7. Tom McNeely 8. Sonny Liston Does Sam run the table, or is he stopped short? If stopped, who stops him? Thank you for all responses!
Do you factor number of fights when considering and comparing a fighter's age and prime?
The answer is so obvious - by every meaningful metric other than actual birth certificate, B is the younger fighter. Unless Fighter B has God-given elite all-timer talent and either spars with the absolute best in class or has access to an elite trainer with lineage/experience of teaching true upper echelon skills, they will be levels below Fighter A in experience and deployment of skill. A will be a superior fighter but will have paid for that with wear and tear.
If Prime Ali Fought Frazier.
Frazier probably stops him. A rematch follows and Ali's career is effectively over about the same time he made his return from exile in reality. Ali bested Frazier in their series because he returned just as Frazier's peak was coming to an end. Obviously Ali had a lot to do with end Frazier's prime. But Frazier style was never meant for longevity. Most importantly, and Yank Durham said, Ali had out-grown Frazier.
Heavyweight Champions: 50-0?
Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Shay Sonya, . Which Heavyweight Champion of the World, could have gone 50-0, if he could have fought one former or future World Heavyweight Champion 50 times in a row, with both at their best every time? Name the two. Example: Sonny Liston could have gone 50-0 against former Heavyweight World Champion, Floyd Patterson, with both at their best for each fight (if you believe that). Your name or email address: Do you already have an account?
Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Coco, . Which fighters had the biggest weight jumps from one fight to the next? Ideally atleast 2 weight division jump examples please. Off the top of my head, probably Roy Jones Jr. Sirimongkhon Iamthuam, from Thailand, is one of the most insane current weight jumpers I can think of. Maybe check his record?
Pick The Darkhorse Heavyweight GOAT.
Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Shay Sonya, . This thread is about making the case for an unlikely candidate as All-Time Goat of Heavyweight Boxing. Who is overlooked in that regard, but could actually be the one! Make your case! Shay Sonya said: ↑ This thread is about making the case for an unlikely candidate as All-Time Goat of Heavyweight Boxing. Who is overlooked in that regard, but could actually be the one! Make your case! Click to expand...
Prime Max Baer Vs Usyk's Cruiserweight Opposition
Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mandela2039, . Teleport the Livermore Larupper into today's boxing world, to go back, he must defeat the next series of opponents in single fights, both at their highest peak as a pugilist: Krzysztof Glowacki Michael Hunter Marco Huck Mairis Briedis Murat Gassiev Tony Bellew Does Max Baer succeed and go back? or does he get stranded in the future?
The Trilogy That Never Was: Schmeling - Sharkey III
Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Shay Sonya, . In June, !930, Max Schmeling captured the vacant Lineal HW Title by a win by DQ (Foul) over Jack Sharkey. In June of 1932, Jack Sharkey won the Lineal HW Title by a Split Decision in 15 rounds over Max Schmeling. It is now June, 1933, and they meet again to settle this rivalry. Who wins the Trilogy That Never Was? Your name or email address: Do you already have an account? No, create an account now. Yes, my password is: Stay logged in
Send in your 1899-1909 heavyweight to beat Mike Tyson and Usyk
Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by InMemoryofJakeLamotta, . Send them in. There must be a heavyweight that beats both Tyson and Usyk from that time period. None of them should be favored over Oleksandr Usyk and Mike Tyson. In multiple tries, Jack Johnson might be able to pick up a decision win over Oleksandr Usyk somewhere along the line. James J. Jeffries has the best chance of completing that task against Mike Tyson. Your name or email address: Do you already have an account?
Tyson Fury vs George Foreman - that time again?
I am still confused by the weight advantage theory. How does Fury's extra 50 lbs help him? It means he is a bigger target. It makes him easy to hit. Foreman has a better left hook than Wilder, a better right uppercut, a better left uppercut, a better jab, and a way better chin. Fury won't be able to push Foreman back with his power the way he could with Wilder. I am very doubtful such a fight would even happen. Here is what Fury would probably say "I'm a fighting man.
Louis describes how he beat Carnera
'Primo seemed to have no heart in his work. After I'd given him a couple of stinging punches to the body, he seemed less interested than ever. He retreated with a miserable sort of air, and I followed up with a double-handed attack as fast as I could. He didn't seem to like it all. Big as he is, he knew all about those punches; I could see he was getting hurt. He tried to cover up, but couldn't, and at the end of the round his ribs and chest were red and painful...
A Zany Time Travelling Jimmy Young Scenario
With the number of belts available (and three weight classes to choose from), I would say he could almost certainly grab one, one way or another.
Okay. Exactly how bad was James J. Jeffries then? Jeffries vs. Riddick Bowe.
Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Shay Sonya, . Prime to Prime, 12 rounds. The meet with rules and gear halfway between (1944-1946), with time to train and view film of each other. How does this go? I don’t think a matchup with Bowe would prove whether Jeff was good or bad, Bowe was huge.
Joshua should of been better than he was..
Many fighters are never the same after their first loss and Joshua is a prime example. At 22-0 and matched against someone chosen to help showcase him to the potentially huge US market, Joshua got complacent. Ruiz, way better than Hearn and Joshua gave him credit for - that's why he was chosen - was good enough to capitalize and the US dream and Joshua's self confidence were crushed on the same night.
Who Does Holyfield Do Better against than Tyson
Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Joeywill, . Which heavyweights would Holyfield fair better against than Mike Tyson Besides each other The Tyson fight was one of circumstances , styles, timing and more importantly mental toughness. Holyfield was past prime when he won but his roided strength and mental toughness was too much for Tyson at that stage of his career.
Would Ali-Dempsey even be competitive?
Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Melankomas, . I feel like most of us think Ali will win, only question is how comfortably? Jack Dempsey, in his PRIME, would not be an easy fight for Muhammad Ali, but I think Ali would win it. Your name or email address: Do you already have an account? No, create an account now. Yes, my password is: Stay logged in
Mitch Green vs Jack Dempsey and Rocky Marciano
Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by InMemoryofJakeLamotta, . Green survived a near prime Mike Tyson. Dempsey and Marciano had similar styles, with important differences, however they were 20-30 pounds smaller than Mike Tyson. Could Green survive them or even beat them? I think he would have a better chance of surviving them than beating them, for whatever that is worth... Your name or email address: Do you already have an account? No, create an account now.
1978: Ken Norton vs Leon Spinks
Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by AntonioMartin1, . Ken Norton for me by stoppage. Norton outboxes then stops Spinks after three or four rounds. Too strong and skilful. Your name or email address: Do you already have an account? No, create an account now. Yes, my password is: Stay logged in
Ngannou in the 1930s heavyweight scene
Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by InMemoryofJakeLamotta, . Outside of Joe Louis, how would Ngannou with his size and relative skill level have done vs the smaller heavies of that day? Like what if he fought Max Baer instead of AJ or Max Schmeling rather than Fury? Francis Ngannou is a very muscular and strong man. In tests of strength I like Francis Ngannou over Max Baer or Max Schmeling. I do not like Francis Ngannou's chances against Max Baer or Max Schmeling in boxing.
What did you think of the motion picture Phantom Punch (2008)?
I still haven’t seen it can you make a review for it here? I literally always wanted to see it, haven’t bothered to yet.
AI Pick's Nat Fleischer's Likely Top Ten Heavyweights (2025)
Strangely enough i think this is close to what Fleischer would have done. Flesicher did drop Louis down to #6 but i suspect that was due to pressure from old timers. The only pick i don't think would be as high would be Marciano. I personally rate Rocky very very high (top 10 for me) but Rocky barely made Nat's top 10 and this was before Ali regained the title, before Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, Wald etc. Nat was never going to change his mind on Jack Johnson.
WW3: Wilder vs Willard
Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by InMemoryofJakeLamotta, . Don't laugh because Jess Willard was champion in an era of only 1 champion per weight class. He also was stronger than Wilder and could bull him around, much like Fury did and Fury wasn't known as a big puncher, but hit plenty hard enough to hurt Wilder and I suspect that Willard would as well hit hard enough to hurt Wilder. That said who wins the battle of the W's?
Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Sonny's jab, . Wills or Langford ? Who rates higher at heavyweight ? Wills should rate far above Langford at HW. His resume is amazing, on resume alone he rates above Dempsey. Arguably Wills was the best HW in the world from 1912-1926 P4P Langford rates higher Wills as my #15 Heavy; Langford #16. I think Langford. The series between them dose not tell the whole story because Langford was on the decline when it started.
R.I.P. Burt Bienstock
I'm not sure, if you guys already know this - but earlier this morning I was informed by Henry Hascup, that Burt Bienstock passed away on November 17 last year. I believe he was 97 years old. Those of you who have been her for a while, will remember Burt as a knowledgeable old-timer, and a huge fan of especially Greb and Dempsey. I'm sure many here will have fond memories of Burt, and have been missing his insight and enthuastic posts, when discussing the great fighters of yesteryear.
Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Shay Sonya, . "Sugar Ray Robinson, the legendary boxer, famously dreamed about his fight with Jimmy Doyle. Prior to their match in 1947, Robinson had a vivid dream that he would kill Doyle in the ring. This dream was so disturbing that Robinson tried to pull out of the fight, but was persuaded to go ahead with the match after a minister reassured him.
Pre-Louis fighter with the best chance of beating Foreman?
Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Melankomas, . Who has the best shot at beating a peak, ‘73-74 Foreman? Why? Jack Johnson was a slick boxer. Those types usually troubled George Foreman. I am not saying he would win, but I think Jack Johnson has the best chance of upsetting George Foreman. Your name or email address: Do you already have an account? No, create an account now. Yes, my password is: Stay logged in
One Last Time: The Great Muhammad Ali in the ring in 1993.
Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Shay Sonya, . This content is protected Your name or email address: Do you already have an account? No, create an account now. Yes, my password is: Stay logged in
The Spinks brothers: Who takes it?
Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Shay Sonya, . Leon Spinks vs. Michael Spinks, 12 rounds, at their best. Who wins? Hmmm? Shay Sonya said: ↑ Leon Spinks vs. Michael Spinks, 12 rounds, at their best. Who wins? Hmmm? Click to expand... Michael Spinks by UD in 12 rounds I think Leon was more of a heavyweight (strong and powerful), while Michael was a natural tall light heavyweight. Despite this, "Neon Leon" lasted 3 rounds with Larry Holmes, while Michael lasted 30.
Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Shay Sonya, . They fought each other 4 times and went 2-2. In your opinion, which one deserves a higher all-time ranking at Heavyweight, Ezzard or Jersey Joe? Poll included. Easily Ezzard,his resume was thicker. Charles because Walcott didn't deserve the shot he won. Which was one of 5 Walcott received coming off losses. If Walcott doesn't get that title shot its 2-0 Charles and this isn't a conversation. Charles resume is much better too.
Jack Johnson vs. James J. Jeffries, Primes
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Michael Moorer ...underrated...
Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by AntonioMartin1, . I think when we talk about Michael Moorer most remember his losses, as well as the fact he beat a sick Evander Holyfield for his second world Heavyweight title...what should have been an unification, actually. Most people forget that at Light-Heavyweight, he was a monster. He was the Tyson of the Light-Heavies. I do admit, the competition at Light-Heavyweight was kind of weak.... Comments?
Dunkhorst vs. Willard
Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Melankomas, . Dunkhorst was a bit of a tomato can but he was still Jeff's sparring partner, and was good enough for Tommy Ryan to favour him against Fitzsimmons both in public and in private reports. Sure, he was wrong to favour him against Fitzsimmons, but Willard isn't Fitzsimmons himself. Ed was able to last 22 rounds against Ruhlin as well as make it the distance against Choynski, Childs, Maher and Armstrong. Could he beat Jess? Well ...
Size trumps all, in Reverse?
Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Shay Sonya, . Primes, with the older Champions as the bigger fellows: James J. Jeffries vs. Jack Dempsey. Jess Willard vs. Joe Louis. Primo Carnera vs. Rocky Marciano. Does size still trump all, or do the smaller guys win? 12 Rounds. Modern rules. Time to adjust first. Shay Sonya said: ↑ Primes, with the older Champions as the bigger fellows: James J. Jeffries vs. Jack Dempsey. Jess Willard vs. Joe Louis. Primo Carnera vs. Rocky Marciano.
Was Archie Moore a Heavyweight world champion? (Explanation below)
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Do you think Ali believed he could beat Holmes in 1980?
Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by dmt, . Do you think he genuinely thought he could win this fight at this stage in his career? He seemed to be fine in the pre fight conferences but during the first round, he wasn't even trying to throw punches except for one fast lead right hand. Do you think he had any self belief when it came to this fight or was it strictly for the money? Muhammad Ali may or may not have thought he could win over Larry Holmes.
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Jess Willard Head to Head vs. ---
A lot of people are very down on Jess Willard. Many think he is the worst Heavyweight Lineal Champion ever. I want to see what some people thing about Jess head to head against the following 4 Lineal Champions, who came before him. We'll use the Jess Willard who defeated Jack Johnson. Jess Willard vs. the James J. Corbett, who defeated Sullivan. Jess Willard vs. the Bob Fitzsimmons, who defeated Corbett. Jess Willard vs the Marvin Hart, who defeated Root. Jess Willard vs. Tommy Burns, who defeated Hart.
Why didn't they keep LHW at 161-175 lbs?
Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by InMemoryofJakeLamotta, . Why super middle? In Moore's day, RJJ would have been a light heavyweight while weighing 168 pounds. Gerald McCellan, Nigel Benn, Chris Eubank would have all been light heavyweights. Why make the super middleweight division? Your name or email address: Do you already have an account? No, create an account now. Yes, my password is: Stay logged in
Bob Fitzsimmons vs. Gene Tunney
Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Shay Sonya, . Prime vs Prime, at Heavyweight. Can Ruby Robert do to Gene Tunney what he did to Corbett, or was Tunney better than Corbett? Tunney was more athletic than Corbett, I don't know if he was "better". I think Fitzsimmons has the style to beat Tunney. The strong body shots would slow down his quick feet, and the head movement would make it hard for Tunney to pop out his jab.
Who looks better on film, Jack Dempsey or Joe Gans?
Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Melankomas, . Many users, as well as many boxing historians, are of the opinion that boxing started getting its groove around the Dempsey era technique wise, and that the fighters prior were pretty much cavemen comparatively speaking. So: the finest technician of the 1900s was Gans. Who do you think looks better on film? This content is protected This content is protected I guess it depends on what you mean by "better." Everyone has their preferences.
What was so shameful about George Foreman and the Toronto Five?
Big George pocketed $200K in 1970s money for basically a public sparring exhibition that was televised. he took on five true professional heavyweights, one after the other, in an afternoon. Muhammad Ali, who held an exhibition in Japan with a wrestler who crawled around on his hands and feet crab-style while getting his shins kicked in, ridiculed it.
James J. Jeffries in 1906
Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Shay Sonya, . Alternate History: It is the year 1906. Canadian boxer, Tommy Burns, has captured the World Heavyweight Championship from Marvin Hart. Instead of waiting until 1910 to return, James J. Jeffries is monetarily persuaded to return from retirement in 1906. The goal is to bring the Heavyweight World Title back to the United States. Tommy Burns is monetarily persuaded to defend his belt against Jeffries.
Timo vs Primo
Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mr. magoo, . Timo Hoffman vs Primo Carnera I think Timo would probably outbox him. This is kind of like when they dug up Oliver Cromwell's corpse, and put his head on a spit. I am going with Primo Carnera over Timo Hoffmann, by Decision win. Winner gets Tami (Mauriello) Your name or email address: Do you already have an account? No, create an account now. Yes, my password is: Stay logged in
Rocky Marciano Versus Oleksandr Usyk?
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Commander ’Vander & the Light-Heavies of Doom…
Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Ney, . Holyfield, at the peak of his CW powers, wears the crown & entertains the following men moving up to tackle him. How does he fare? Conn Foster Moore Spinks Tunney Fifteen or twelve rounds, as you like. Ney said: ↑ Holyfield, at the peak of his CW powers, wears the crown & entertains the following men moving up to tackle him. How does he fare? Conn Foster Moore Spinks Tunney Fifteen or twelve rounds, as you like. Click to expand...
Bob Fitzsimmons vs. Gene Tunney
Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Shay Sonya, . The best version of Bob Fitzsimmons vs. the best version of Gene Tunney. 12 rounds. Who do you have winning, and how? Can Bob do to Gene what he did to James J. Corbett, or worse? Or does Gene do to Bob what he did to Jack Dempsey, or worse? Seems to me it just a different era of fighting. The old timers fought to straight-up and static. I go with Gene.
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